will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

ok will you buy 90% at 10x face? Do you think thats a good deal or what. it seems like dimes go for that easy, quarters and halves not quite so easy but them too, but the silver dollars are hard to get in anything but cull under 13 even if you buy a roll

this is price trend for the past year it seems

my first few stabs at ebay yielded some better than that but of late it seems ebay gets scrubbed for silver deals

I sold some 90% at 8x, more recently 7.3x. some junky halves I wanted to trade in for nice ones for a folder. I wish I could find a way to buy for that!

I dont even like paying 10x. and I dont give a crap what the price of silver is. 10x is really starting to feel expensive. If I cant either get something with novelty, or something to fill one of my folders, then I am not going to buy at 10x anymore. oh maybe one last time. but I think the price stinks and as the US economy starts to contract-- oh it will, it will; it will cool the price because industrial demand will be affected. Oh and if the Chins get some kind of financial crisis-- which could easily happen-- and their bubble popped, then you would see major deflation in raw commodity prices, that is my sense. Silver right along with everything else including prolly gold too.

I dont see gold going over 700 nor silver over 14. that is my sense of it. I am no technician but that is my gut. So if I am just buying junk I do not want to pay 10x for it. I ws bidding at 9 today in the last minutes of an ebay auction that seemed "lost" due to some odd placement, for a second I thought it was in the bag and somebody snaked in last second.

somebody got a chart for spot price compared to face value? that would be a nice adddition to the coinflation website.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

http://professionalcoinbuyingservice...fExtraFine.jpg

Why not just build a hoard of extra or very fine morgans and peace dollars Anty Ep, you can get them for 12 to 15 bucks, and maybe some day they will have a "numi" premium. I like them and they are the only 90 percent stuff I have.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Anty that seems a little high. Should be in the low 9ssss.


I use this place as a guide for buying and selling. Never done business with them.

http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/showProducts.do



Some of the eBay sellers sell small lots and list the coins. At least you would know what dates you are getting.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

sure, I got some, can pretty regularly get XF or AU 21s for $14 or 15, but peaces seem like they're in shorter quantity. recently I have seen BU 64 knnedy rolls for $100, that seems like a better deal to me right now than wasting a lot of time trolling ebay for a shot at piddling quality and amounts. of course it is kind of fun.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

nope; I wouldn't because I do not want to pay 10x for something that you can only sell for 7.5x. Right off the bat, I am roughly 25% in the hole. Even if you are able to buy it at less than 10x, the discount at selling time is very steep.

and, I do not want to have to wait around until the next type of Y2k kind of thing for it to go to a premium. Because, how likely is that you will sell it at that point?? Probably not too likely; you will hold on, and after that event passes, it will go back to being bought at a discount.

best advice I ever heard about 90% was to buy a bag, throw it in your closet, forget about it, and pray you never have to use it. Then go about buying your silver in the .999 form.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Stop posting here. You're embarrasing yourself.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Let's compare the market for 90% with that of .999 at the very moment. APMEX is selling a $1K bag for $9,036.08, with a claimed 712 oz. of silver, which amounts to $12.69/oz. They are buying at $8,786.08, which amounts to $12.34/oz. That's a very narrow spread of just under 3%, with excellent leverage, given that the bag is sold at $.15 below spot at that moment.

APMEX is selling a monster box of 500 American Eagles for $7,190 at this very moment, which amounts to $14.38/oz. Their buy price is $7,015, which amounts to $14.03/oz. That's a better spread of 2.5%, but given the much better price leverage of the 90%, one is more likely to profit later on by buying and selling the 90% bag.

APMEX is selling rounds in bulk for as low as $13.18/oz. They are buying at $12.74/oz. That's a 3.4% spread, which is even worse than the 90%. And of course the 90% again wins with price leverage.

APMEX is selling Englehard or JM 100 oz. bars in bulk at the moment for as low as $13.13/oz. Their buy price is $12.68/oz. That's a 3.5% spread. Again the 90% has a better spread and more price leverage capability.

Therefore, based on this current APMEX pricing analysis, one is likely to profit more by buying and selling 90% bags instead of any form of .999. Those who bought 90% back when silver was $7/oz. 2 years ago, have profited more versus having made that same investment in .999. Thus 90% should not be viewed as just a SHTF insurance policy-it should be viewed as likely the best possible way to invest in silver.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Reminds me of the everyday/everystore psychological marketing ploy: Price it at $9.98 and folks think it's $9.00 and buy it.

Price it at $10.00 and it will stay on the shelf because folks think it's too expensive.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

I have watched the spreads for years in the different forms of silver both at the local level and the national level, and, yes, if you box up your $1000 face bags, buy insurance, and ship them off to a large internet dealer, like APMEX you can get the spread down to something very simalar to other forms of silver. But, you will incur significant costs in doing so with shipping and insurance and you will have to wait at least two weeks to get paid, probably more.

but, generally speaking, if you take your 90% down to your local dealer, you will get quoted a buy price much below spot. I can bring my .999 bars and rounds down to my local dealer, get paid spot all day long, get a check from him and be done with it. Quick, discreet, and cheap.

Some people might live in area where they have access to one of the large dealers who will pay something close to spot for 90%; but not in my area, and not in many areas. It is very much the norm for 90% to be discounted heavily at the local level. I have had extensive conversations with my local guy, he is a personal friend that I have known for years, and he has to discount 90% heavily when he buys from people because the people he sells it to discount it heavily to him.

On the buy side, I have no problem sending money off to APMEX,CNI or Tulving and having them ship silver to me, most of the time you can get the shipping and insurance for free. And, it is pretty hard to beat their prices, the local guys have a tough time competing.

I haven't looked in few days at APMEX's prices, but I will assume your quotes are correct; but, I can buy 100oz bars at APMEX for $13.13 an ounce, go directly down to my local guy and sell them for $12.90 (current spot) for a spread of 1.6% and have the cash in my hand tommorow.

personally, I consider the sell side as much a factor as the buy side when I buy silver. I want to be able to get out of my silver quickly, quietly and cheaply, and that means selling it the local level.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

"Stop posting here. You're embarrasing yourself."

wow, harsh words from a newbie; member since jan 2006, lets see, 2400 posts in 18 months, about 5 a day........I guess that makes you smarter than me.....a firmly entrenched GIM'r, wouldn't want to stray off of GIM "conventional wisdom".......pretty common trait for newbies, stick to the standard line.......post like crazy........ever sold an ounce of silver in your life??? Have any idea what someone will actually pay you for your silver??? Ever boxed up 10 bags of 90% and shipped it off to APMEX or CNI and see what it costs and how long it takes to get your money??? Do you think a $90,000 check coming to you from APMEX is discreet?? Ever think that piece mealing out a large sum of silver at the local level might be a better way to go???
Ever think that you might be in a situation where you need to be discreet and not have a $90,000 check wash through your bank account? Ever try and actually cash a $90,000 check???? Maybe better to sell your silver at the local level in 10 or 11 increments, spread out over a few different local dealers, so you can get paid in cash??? Ever think that maybe selling locally for cash might save you some $$$ in taxes from Uncle Sugar???

I dunno, just a few ideas........I would think from a SHTF type of guy this strategy might be appealing???

I am assuming you have bought some silver, maybe try and sell $30,000 or $40,000 of 90% and get back to me and let me know what you find out....maybe you are lucky and live in a place that has an APMEX type of dealer within driving distance.......that would be great........maybe you don't, that would be not so good......from your posts, it looks like you are a SHTF type of person, thats fine......90% might be a good choice for you if that is your belief. But, for investment purposes or for maintaining your purchasing power purposes, 90% is not the best choice. I personally do not want hassle at sell time....for the time being, you still need to convert your silver back into fiat to be used....that is most likely not changing anytime soon, so the sell side is important...

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

forgot to ask drill, do you understand the concept of "spread"???

do you understand that in mkts there is a bid and an ask??

do you know what a large spread represents vs a smaller spread?? (hint: starts with an L; ends with a Y)??? And, that is the reason why 90% is discounted many times at the local level??

maybe we should have started there, I assumed you understood the concept of spread.......

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

ha, finally one of my threads sees some Pm related action. lol

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

prolly not a bad idea considering that most of us might hold our silver for 30 years or longer.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

This 1940 dime HERE buys you ten cents worth of candy Timmy

:smokin:

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

anty,

the reason the local dealers have a hard time giving you close to spot for your 90% is really three-fold:

1. it costs more to handle and ship 90% because of its additional weight; this isn't a big deal, but a small part of it

2. the refiners charge more to refine 90% than .999; this is a bigger deal, if a dealer sends a 1000ozs of .999 silver rounds to a refiner to be made into a 1000 oz bar, they will charge less than bringing in a 1000ozs silver in 90% coinage.

3. If you talk with them, they will explain that in times like these of relative stability, they sell very little 90% vs .999 rounds and bars. The vast majority of people coming in want .999 rounds and bars, not 90%. The 90% does not move very fast at all unless unless there is a Y2k or 9/11 type of event, then it moves, but until then, it moves much slower.

So, if some guy brings in a $1000 face bag of 90% it will sit around forever. The local guys do not want to assume the price risk of holding 90%, so, they move it up the foodchain. Its liquidity is poor at the local level (people want .999 instead), so when liquidity is poor, spreads widen. To get the next guy up the foodchain to buy it and take on the risk of holding it, the local guy has to discount it enough to get somebody else to take the risk on of holding it. Turnover of that $1000 face bag takes forever, so they do not want it.

the large internet dealers like APMEX and Tulving are at the top of the foodchain as far as liquidity is concerned, they have more outlets for the 90% because they are national, so they can offer more attractive spreads.

Contrast that with the guy who brings in a 1000ozs of .999 rounds or bars; the local guy sells lots and lots of these, so, since the turnover is so high, many times they will just hold onto this silver that they have just bought because they know it will go out the door fast.

Sometimes, if you are dealing in very small amounts of 90%, the local guy will give you a better deal because he can throw it in his 90% tray and move it quickly. But, if you show up at your local dealer tommorow with a 5 bags of 90%, unless he is a big dealer, he will most likely discount it so he can relieve himself of the price risk of holding it and the languishing inventory that it causes.

but, don't take my word for it, just go in and have a conversation with your local dealer; ask him what forms of silver does he move the most of and why he discounts 90%; it is not some scam to screw people, it is just what they need to do to run their business in the most efficient way. Carrying high levels of inventory on an item that moves slowly ties up capital, increases risk, and has high holding costs.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

sure I didnt say it was a scam, I recognize those factors

I'm not hauling in a big ole bag anyways, I've just taken in a bunch of 90% I'd sorted through from various sources and cherry picked out the coins I wanted and wanted to cut loose the rest.

if I really wanted to narry the spread though I wouldnt dick with physical, I'd just be selling my etfs. which I'm not, not at these prices, but if the prices pop I will-

I am not investing in physical, I am spending. I am spending a small and limited amount on this essentially as a hobby. Lets be honest, if I were investing, I wouldnt do this at all, rather I would make a quick 15% by paying down credit card debt! Show me how else I can make 15% with pretty close t0 ZERO risk. No this is spending on a hobby, that is the honest truth.

But I want my spending to be as efficient and rewarding as possible, to provide me with the maximum utility, which is a combination of amusement and pleasure for me and my little coin collecting kids, and the costs of doing so. Part of the fun is making the hobby pay, which is something of a challenge. it's a hobby thats a hell of a lot less expensive than others I've had or could have at this point in my life I'll tell you that.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Trading to acquire 90% at whatever cost is a personal decision based on elements that are always in degree different with different people. IMO it is a subject that has no place or need for a power struggle about "right" because there is no "right"; there's only "different"...and "different" better be ok because that's how everything is.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

At $14 an ounce, face value of silver 90% coins is 10. Should silver hit $14.75 I might pay ten times face, If I have to pay full value I might as well buy .999 silver. I cherry pick better coins out of my 90% collection and sell them to nusimatic dealers.:bull-buddy-icon:

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Thanks for the sanity. I rarely quote posts in their entirety, but this conforms to my understanding of the situation. I can't understand why some investors decide 90% is no good on the basis of the sell price, instead of the spread.

Yes, you sell 90% at under spot, but it can also be purchased at under spot, and if you compute the spread, it ain't bad at all.

If you don't like 90%, don't buy it. But it's a perfectly good deal. Tulving and APMEX both offer a narrow spread, and my local dealer buys it for nearly as much as Tulving pays. If your local dealer doesn't then you might want to avoid it, even though a large dealer can give you a good price via registered mail.

I am skeptical that 90% will show huge premiums in the future -- the Y2K scare, with its huge premiums, may have ruined the image of 90% as a SHTF hedge -- but they aren't making any more of it, and the spread is good.

Spread the love around: buy several different forms of silver. I think Eagles are the worst choice, but I will probably buy a bunch soon.

:sarc:
Maybe it's time for a "90% Bashing" subforum?
:sarc:

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

I don't live in a place that has an APMEX type of dealer nearby, but I love driving and taking long road trip vacations, and have no problem selling to any distant dealers who will match APMEX's buy price, wherever they are. I have already gotten 3 different dealers to come down big in price to either match or almost match APMEX on their sell side. None of them were able to believe that APMEX could even sell for $.35 under spot at that time, and all went to check the APMEX website. One dealer even called APMEX on the phone, as they did business with each other in other areas. Thus small dealers can become much more competitive if you can point out how bad they look versus the competition. APMEX and at least 3 other large dealers are just within a day and a half drive from here. I do agree about spreading out the deals, and keeping below $10K per deal. Cash is not always possible, but it's no big deal cashing an under $10K check at their bank.

90%, and the superb price leverage that it offers, truly is the best silver investment for those like myself who don't mind the prospect of taking a celebratory road trip vacation to the big dealers to sell it off.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

I'm more partial to the Swiss silver, which I can get shipped below spot on eBay. There's just something about Helvetia...I dunno...


either way, for 90%, 10xface would imply a 16% premium over melt. That's bull:rant: if one only takes silver content into consideration.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

I think all the talk here about the buy-sell spread in silver is not an important consideration for some of us silver investors. There are those of us who buy physical silver primarily as an insurance policy against really awful things that can happen at an unknown time, but perhaps in the not too distant future. The physical silver that I buy is put away for safe keeping, and I do not consider selling any of that physical silver, so the buy-sell spread is irrelevant to me. My guess is that the buy-sell spread on the fire insurance for your home is not very good, but I doubt that stops you from buying the insurance. Since I am only interested in buying silver at good times to buy, my objective is to get as much physical silver as I can with the funds I have available for buying at those times. If you can show me a good way to get more ounces of silver in .999 form than I can get in 90% (or possibly in 40%) for the same amount of investment funds, then I will seriously consider it. Until then, however, I will continue to maximize the amount of silver that I can buy with the funds that I allocate to purchasing metals. Obviously, it is a good plan to also allocate funds to purchase of other essential preparations too, but that is a consideration for how one decides to slice his investment pie. Once the size of my slice for purchasing physical metals is decided, I want to maximize the amount of silver that I can get with those funds.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Despite my certainty that a time will come when the paper house of cards will crash, and paper promises will not have any residual value, I also allocate some funds to buying SLV. When silver takes another substantial jog higher, then I can easily sell the SLV to capture short term profits. That is a much better way for me to take short term profits because I don�t need to lift and haul 50 pound bags or boxes of silver around to do it. My buy-sell spread on SLV is a trivial consideration, and with trading SLV I don�t need to worry about throwing out my back lifting bags of heavy metal, or dropping boxes of the stuff on my foot, or having the silver stolen during the selling process. I do have to fess� up and declare the gains at tax time, but at least I do not need to worry about what could happen to people who get caught not declaring their gains.
<o:p></o:p>
For those who insist on buying only .999, I think a different question is an important consideration. Chinese Panda silver coins are beautiful, but how many have you bought in the last few years? Some of us would not consider buying Panda silver because it has a reputation now of having a lot of quality problems. As that reputation spreads and there are fewer buyers, one can expect that any premium remaining on Panda silver will continue to deteriorate, with a corresponding loss to the people who hold those coins. As the price of silver rises higher than $30 ($50?, $100?!), it is difficult for me to believe that the people who can make high quality fakes of Panda silver wouldn�t consider expanding their craft into other forms of .999 rounds and bars. If that happens, investors will become aware of the potential problems, and my guess is that the more than 10% premium one must pay now to purchase .999 could drop substantially due to the fear factor about fakes. I am convinced that .999 will be a bigger target for the criminals than 90% because .999 bars and rounds will be easier to fake and will offer a larger profit profile than 90%. I consider it possible that at some future time the more secure silver in 90% could actually trade at a higher price per ounce of silver than the less secure and more frequently faked .999 silver rounds and bars.
<o:p></o:p>
Obviously, I would not pay 10 X face today with silver at less than $13. As the price of silver runs higher than $14, however, 10 X face will become a great bargain for the buyer. I hope that I will get a few opportunities to purchase more 90% at rates that are not too much higher than 10 X! :coolbeer:

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

show me one such completed sale, because I have no clue what you are talkin bout, and I dont speak much if any German let alone SweitzerDeutsche!

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Can anyone point me to a short list of the really big dealers that you can go visit? I mean the big ones with national presence, perhaps online, that you can also go visit. I imagine these would be fun places to check out even if you are no buying / selling. Anyone ever visited one? Was it cool?

Dymaxion

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

As of this morning, according to coinflation.com, a silver dime has a silver content value of $.9367, so 10x face would be a little under 7% premium. In my humble opinion, if we see a SHTF scenario anytime coming, it will be easier to barter with silver dimes, quarters and halfs than full ounce silver bars at all. For some who invest in silver, maybe 90% is not as good as others, but for certain convenience factors, 90% is the way to go!

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

My junk silver is all in the form of peace dollars. Not for investment, but for the day I have to throw my emergency backpack into the jeep and run for the hills. Nothing scientific about it, but I'd guess that bartering silver dollars might be easier than trading for a zillon little silver dimes.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

http://www.govmint.com/media/images/...11694_comp.jpg

Hey markt, welcome to GIM. Yes peace dollars too, and you can get them for less than Morgans sometimes. In fact I think I might switch from buying 10 ounce bars to extra fine Silver dollars for a while.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

My mistake; I used an earlier price of silver. I place the upper bound of my bids at $12/oz less shipping, or $11,5 if there's been a pullback, so I don't really stay up to date.

Yes, 7% would be very close with a POS of $12,94. I see European silver trading at a premium, though, on account that most people would still associate silver dimes, quarters & halves with their base metal counterparts, thus subconciously assigning a discount relative to silver that they do not associate e.g. Dutch guilders (0,1504 oz, $1,95), Swiss half-francs (0,0671 oz, $0,87) &c.

I will emigrate before this comes into play, though, so I am not sure it will be of much use for me to have US silver anyway.

Re: will you buy 90% at 10x face
 

Here's a list of some, with no mention of APMEX, as compiled by Jason Hommel, shown at
http://silverstockreport.com/buybullion.htm

"Where to Buy Bullion in Large Quantities:

The following dealers generally have, or regularly keep, over 100,000 oz. silver bullion in inventory: These are generally not places to call for small retail orders. The dealers in this category may or may not have the best prices, but they do have bullion in large size.

American Coin and Vault
5523 North Wall Street
Spokane, WA 99205
(509) 326-7512

California Numismatics (will accept small retail orders)
http://www.golddealer.com
Richard Schwary & Kenny Edwards
1-800-225-7531

Miles Franklin Ltd.
http://www.milesfranklin.com
St. Louis Park, Minn.
Bob Sichel 1-800-814-3224
They believe their exclusive wholesaler is one of the top 5-6 wholesalers in size in N. America.

http://www.wexfordcoin.com/BullionBar.htm
Minimum order $5000 --also publishes bid/ask quotes
David W. Young
Wexford Capital Management
113 Brenton Court
Stephens City, VA 22655
Toll-Free: 877-855-9760

(others shown)

http://amark.com/
https://online.kitco.com
http://www.coloradogold.com
http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/printe...g=Gold%20Coins
http://ajpm.com/htbin/silver.cgi
http://www.goldfingercoin.com/prices.html#SILVER
http://www.ccsilver.com/silver/silver_coins.html
(end of quoted info)".